Our guests this week are Asha Worsteling (psychology student, community advocate and Greens candidate in the upcoming Federal election) and Rosie Codega (young non-binary person, recent year 12 graduate and future university student).
*** Apologies for the audio quality in this episode – due to a hiccup with our recording software, we’ve had to use a low-resolution version. Not to worry, we’ll be back to high-resolution next episode! ***
Asha & Rosie’s 3 Big Ideas:
- Free Tafe and Uni
- Housing & Rental affordability for young people
- Jobs & Job security for young people
Beyond the Rona Podcast is recorded in Logan, Queensland on Yuggera country. We acknowledge the traditional owners past, present and emerging.
If you’re interested in coming on the show, please contact us, we would love to hear from you!
Episode Transcript
Andrea Wildin 0:00
We’re recording today on the lands of the Jagera people and acknowledge the traditional elders here past, present and emerging.
Andrea Wildin 0:13
Hi, everyone, welcome to Beyond The Rona. I’m Andrea, Former registered nurse and midwife.
Tim Hill 0:20
Hi, I’m Tim. I’m a small business owner and digital marketer.
Andrea Wildin 0:24
Today we’re talking to Asha Worsteling and Rosie Codega, about young people mental health and Rona
Andrea Wildin 0:35
I’m just referring today to an article that was in The Guardian. And I’ll just read out a little bit about what it said, it said that the latest Australian Institute of Health and Welfare data [inaudible]… people who are struggling the most… experiencing challenges unthinkable for their parents of the same age.
Andrea Wildin 0:56
It was saying that even before the pandemic, three quarters of Australians with mental ill health were under 25. And our 16 to 25 year olds were experiencing a higher prevalence of mental ill health than their friends and families of any other [inaudible]…
Andrea Wildin 1:13
Covid has compounded the problem significantly. Enduring the lockdowns at this stage in their development, children suffered a loss of freedom, extended social isolation, lack of connection with peers… [inaudible] and denial of celebrating milestones such as the end of year 12. Meanwhile, all around them, their world is an unpredictable place defined by global public health emergency.
Andrea Wildin 1:39
So this generation is going to.. is going to inherit the post COVID world that we create, as well as the world post climate change. And [inaudible]
Andrea Wildin 1:51
I guess I just wanted to have a chat today to Asha Worsteling, who’s a psychology student, young person and community advocate here in Brisbane, and the greater Logan area. And also, Rosie Codega, who’s a young, non binary person from the Brisbane Logan area.
Andrea Wildin 2:09
Asha, can you tell me what’s your experience being a psychology student? And I guess, you know, having experience you know, speaking with other young people, and I know that you were telling me that your brother is graduating this year, what’s it been like for young people graduating and going through COVID.
Asha Worsteling 2:33
I think it’s just becoming harder and harder for people to create meaningful social networks, which was already kind of happening with people going a lot more online and all that. But this has just kind of compounded it to the point where now most of people’s social interactions are online.
Asha Worsteling 2:53
And I think that, you know, it’s been hard for my brother for example, he’s been out of school a lot. And he’s had to motivate himself a lot to do well and do work. And it’s hard when you’re by yourself at home, to find that motivation, a lot of the time, it’s just harder for people to reach out when they need help. If there aren’t people physically or it’s a lot harder to like, send someone in text being like, hey, I need help. (Yeah) Than it is to have a conversation with someone.
Andrea Wildin 3:30
I did read that a lot of people. I think it was in Melbourne, were actually going to a public library to get internet access to actually do their studies. Did you hear anything about people around Brisbane having to do that?
Asha Worsteling 3:48
Um, I’ve not personally heard anything, but I’m sure it’s true. I mean, you know, schools are supposed to be available for everyone. And when you do have to do it from home, a lot of people don’t have great home lives, or, you know, don’t really have the resources. When I was in school. You know, I had friends who maybe couldn’t afford a laptop or something like that, which now is kind of mandatory because of the fact that they have to do work from home. So yeah, I definitely think that it’s disadvantaging certain people.
Andrea Wildin 4:21
Yeah. And Rosie, what about yourself? You actually graduated through COVID? What was that like to have to go through your graduation?
Rosie Codega 4:29
Um, yeah, it was definitely different. There was just a lot of uncertainty throughout the whole year of just what was going to happen, what would be happening next, what the restrictions are gonna be like, and like with that added anxiety on top of just grade 12 itself, it was a lot for a lot of people in my grade, I think.
Andrea Wildin 4:56
Yeah. And then like, I know you’ve recently got your driver’s licence? Like I think that would have been quite difficult to have everybody get their driver’s licence, sort of at the same time there was that kind of missing, or delayed milestones, you know, that maybe Tim and I took for granted when we reached those milestones, you know, that there wasn’t any…. There wasn’t anything in our way back when we did those things that you know, nothing like COVID Anyway, I know that they even shut down the ability for people to actually get their lessons done through COVID. What was that like for people that you knew Rosie- to get- to get your licence?
Rosie Codega 5:41
Um, yeah, well, even for me, like, there were times when there were the heavy restrictions, and you just couldn’t get lessons. I know, yeah. It just kind of really dragged it out for a while. And all the waiting lists just kept getting longer and longer, when things just kept getting pushed back. And so yeah, it was kind of, do I prepare for this? Or do I just leave it? Because we don’t know what’s happening.
Tim Hill 6:13
Rosie, when you I mean, I think it’s really fascinating to be, to have been, you know, kind of the first lot of students that actually graduated through this situation through a pandemic, how did you feel the school reacted to that? Did you feel like they provided enough assistance and support?
Rosie Codega 6:36
Probably not as much, but it is fairly understandable with all the teachers and the whole community going through the same thing of “we don’t really know what’s going on here”. So we felt like we were in the dark, but also, everyone else was at the same time. And yeah, I guess we would find ourselves pushing the teachers to let us have those milestones of like, there’s, you know, 100 days left of school, or little things like that. Being able to have like class parties and little things along the way.
Andrea Wildin 7:21
There was Schoolies as well, wasn’t there.
Rosie Codega 7:23
Yeah. Yeah. So Schoolies, there was a lot of people waiting to see what kind of things we could do there. Like parties and things all had to be cancelled. And no one could really go overseas for Schoolies. So if you wanted to do something to celebrate that you’ve just made it out. You had to, you know, do it locally, do it. With not many people, those kinds of things.
Andrea Wildin 7:52
Yeah, I find that, you know, when we, when Tim and I left school, I was talking to Tim about this the other day that there was sort of like this, I don’t know if it was spoken or unspoken, but there was kind of like this pressure to achieve these sort of milestones. Where you, you left school, you maybe travelled, and there was sort of like this, this thing that you kind of had to travel before you settled down and got married and had babies and bought a house…. Because, apparently, if you didn’t do it, then and you know, and so everything kind of was you were told that it would go in order,
Andrea Wildin 8:37
you know, you would leave school, you would maybe travel or go straight to uni, either way. But then you would eventually, you know, settle down, get married, buy a house, buy a car, have children, and you know, you kind of had your life kind of all set out. And this was your measure of success. And I think, you know, when I look at young people today, I think not only COVID, but the way that our government policies have been set up kind of makes meeting those milestones or measures of success, really, really difficult for young people. So, I mean, I kind of look at that, as, you know, maybe that’s adding to the anxiety and mental health for young people, not only the lack of connection between everybody, not only the, you know, that like not being able to see people’s faces, I think does it does add to the lack of connection,you know, like and the isolation between people as well, the lack of touch between people,you know, and then the uncertainty of the future.Yeah, I think all of this would add to the mental health of young people. What do you think Asha?
Asha Worsteling 9:58
I definitely agree. I think You know, taking that even further. Last night, my brother had his final exam yesterday. So I went over to a mum’s place. And, you know, we like burned his books. We had like a little bonfire and we burned his books. Just like it’s like a symbolic thing of, you know, saying that something’s over. And I feel like you know, the milestones that you’re talking about are symbolic things that we do to move on from stages in life.
Asha Worsteling 10:29
And when we can’t do that I feel like there is a bit of a mental, I don’t know, angst about it, maybe I don’t really quite know what the right word is. But yeah, it does make it harder, I think to feel like you actually are moving on as much. (Yeah)
Tim Hill 10:47
Asha where do you think the that angst comes from like, what, who or what entity is kind of like responsible for that?
Asha Worsteling 10:58
I think partly, maybe it’s, as you say, it was a tradition, up until quite recently. So there’s that kind of social norm that they aren’t able to fill, and that they expected that they would be able to feel like my brother, you know, my family. We’ve lived overseas a lot. And so we’ve travelled a lot. And when I finished school… we did, we went away, we went on holidays.
Asha Worsteling 11:27
And my brother wanted to do that, because it was, you know, just the fun thing that you did… he was looking forward to it. But now he can’t. So I think it’s like partly internal, partly external. Just, it’s the expectation of something that doesn’t come to fruition. I think that can be a bit disappointing.
Andrea Wildin 11:47
I think definitely. Climate change is definitely adding to that, isn’t it? Because I mean, when I don’t know about, like your school, Tim, but in my school, we didn’t really talk about climate change. I don’t know. Did they talk about climate change when, like in your
Tim Hill 12:05
thinking back? No. I mean, it wasn’t…. it absolutely wasn’t anywhere near… You know, the, the kind of the level that it’s at today. And, you know, I was, I went through grade 12 in 2002. So it was certainly an issue and has been for many decades, but it just wasn’t on the radar. I feel.
Andrea Wildin 12:29
Yeah, I mean, what about for you, Rosie, do you think climate change is adding as well as COVID? Like, do you think that’s adding to young people’s mental health?
Rosie Codega 12:41
Um, yeah, I think so as well. Like, there’s a certain stagnancy with the uncertainty. And like, I’m even went to the, like school strike for the climate change during my last year of grade 12. And it just really, I don’t know, it kind of, it’s just another thing on top of COVID that, yeah, there’s not really any sense of predictability. Like, why are we studying? Why are we just getting jobs? Why are we, you know, doing these cycles? If?
Andrea Wildin 13:23
Yeah, if it’s the planets gonna burn, like, (yeah). feeling of doom. Yeah. So I think there’s that as well as the fact that, you know, the people that you’re looking at who have the power, the politicians who you would think, are the ones who are going to fix it aren’t actually fixing it.
Rosie Codega 13:45
Yeah they’re just not caring really
Andrea Wildin 13:48
They’re not caring. And, I mean, that’s, it’s kind of realising that, you know, the Tooth Fairy isn’t real or that Santa Claus isn’t real. It’s, you know, it’s a big letdown. It is. It’s a huge letdown. It’s like, Oh, what?!, you’re not going to help me?!. You know, it’s, it’s huge.
Asha Worsteling 14:11
I think it’s more than just like, the whole you’re not going to help me but the fact that we, as young people are fairly powerless. You know, we can’t vote, our voices are very rarely taken seriously. And, you know, even me, like I’ve been a political candidate before, I am currently a political candidate. And when I was a political candidate before like, I was only 20 years old, I get that I’m young. But you know, when you’re standing next to say, you know, much older people who have a lot more experience doing like speeches and stuff that
Asha Worsteling 14:52
you do think that because I don’t have experience what I have to say is less valuable or something. Um and..And so I think that just the powerlessness that comes along with being a young person, while still being really concerned about these issues can be quite frustrating.
Andrea Wildin 15:10
Yeah, yeah. And..go on Rosie?
Rosie Codega 15:15
I was just gonna, like add to that, that, like, on top of that needing experience and stuff, like with COVID.. Not many people can get experience because there’s such, you know, jobs, you know, job shortages and stuff like that. Yeah, it’s hard for us to even get experience. But you guys will still tell us that, you know, just get experience, you’re still too young. All this stuff?
Andrea Wildin 15:47
Yeah, I did find that a bit of a shock that, you know, I guess, with automation. And, you know, things like McDonald’s, for example, where everything is automated. I mean, that’s where a lot of young people got their first jobs, you know, and now we have, you know, a lot of those first jobs are gone.
Andrea Wildin 16:29
And instead, they’re getting, you know, they’re having to get three or four jobs, you know, just to get enough hours to survive. And I know Rosie, you’re about to go to university next year. Asha, have you had to work and go to university at the same time?
Asha Worsteling 16:47
Yeah, um, in my experience, at least, most of my friends have also worked while at university. And, like, it’s doable, but it’s busy. Like, it is very busy and can often be quite stressful.
Asha Worsteling 17:07
Yeah, I think too, like, it just means, you know, university expects you to do like 40 hours a week is like sort of the expected number of hours you spend on a full time load, which just doesn’t really happen, if you are also working. So I guess it just means that you kind of, I guess, don’t get to delve into topics as much as maybe you would like to?
Andrea Wildin 17:36
Yeah, I think one thing I have noticed in young people, that I’ve been really proud of is that they can see that things can be better, you know, that things can be done better. And I am really proud of that, that they’re questioning everything.
Andrea Wildin 17:54
And that they see that, you know, with, with better policy, that things didn’t have to be that way. That they could actually have housing, affordability, you know, how do we how do we make things easier for young people into the future?
Andrea Wildin 18:12
Because not only have you got now, like the article said at the beginning, we’ve got now, you know, the fact that we’ve now got all these young people with mental health problems, excuse me. But we’ve also got now the debt that you’re about to inherit from COVID. But you’ve also got, you know, the housing affordability problem, you’ve got the lack of housing, you’ve got, you know, automation and the lack of jobs, we’ve got lack of jobs, and the gig economy.
Andrea Wildin 18:50
You know, there’s a lot of, yeah, there’s a lot of problems for young people and a lot of uncertainty in the world for you to go through yet. And as well as that I think young people have kind of fundamentally changed, like, we…[inaudible] a lot more..[inaudible]… go along with it, and just just do it.
Andrea Wildin 19:10
But then that created a lot of trauma, which impacts..[inaudible]…you know, and it’s the children now who have the trauma, and they’re now having to kind of live with that.
Andrea Wildin 19:24
So, you know, I do applaud young people that they’re now kind of standing up and going, we’ve got enough trauma to deal with I think, you know, now we have to turn things around and, you know, and fix it all. Thanks very much boomers. Not that I’m a boomer.
Tim Hill 19:39
Yeah, I totally agree. Because I also feel that you know, when, you know, thinking back to when I was a teenager and and in my early 20s, there certainly wasn’t that same sense of like, if you want to make a point, then you can go out and do it like you know, that the fact that there are school strikes and you know, young people are organising like…Yeah, I can’t think of a situation, you know, back then where we ever did that, and, you know, that’s just like, you know, yeah, my experience, but I do feel that yeah, young people are certainly better organised than then, you know when when I was back at that age and but I also understand that duality of also feeling powerless, but then, you know, at the same time doing a much better job, I guess then then what we did?
Andrea Wildin 20:32
Yeah, yeah. And like, I do think COVID has definitely been, like, if I was a young person, it would definitely have been a scary time, don’t you think? Tim?
Tim Hill 20:44
Like, oh, yeah, yeah, we just sailed through, you know, like back then there was, there wasn’t that, you know, just thinking about like anything major that happened during that time for me, there was nothing. So I mean, this has been just, yeah, really, really, really. Yeah, massive interruption to everyone’s study and work.
Asha Worsteling 21:07
At least this is my experience of myself and the people around me is that it actually just kind of feels like we’re constantly being bombarded with negative things. I feel like we’re just kind of lacking the ups a lot of the time. You know, we’ve all we’ve got all the time is hearing about how difficult our lives are going to be because we don’t really know what they’re going to look like because of the climate, because we’ve got Coronavirus now because, you know, the we’re having bushfires all the time and droughts. And because, you know, the Taliban just took over Afghanistan.
Asha Worsteling 21:47
You know, yes, all of this stuff it just feels like the world is constantly full of negative.. negativity. And I just think that it’s very hard for us to, like, have a positive outlook of the future, when that’s kind of what we’re told all the time. You know, there are actually progresses happening in terms of climate change issues and new inventions happening. And yeah, I think it’s just important that the news shifts away from the whole disaster lookout type thing.
Andrea Wildin 22:29
Yeah. And Rosie to actually get any mental health support. What is out there that you know about?
Rosie Codega 22:39
I guess places like Headspace, are really good for young people. Because there isn’t that pressure of money involved as such. Like going through, trying to find the right therapy and the right ways to go about things is really difficult when there is money attached to it. It kind of… you’re going for the cheapest option, but the cheapest option isn’t always going to be the best for you.
Andrea Wildin 23:12
Asha, what’s your experience of…You know, people getting mental health support?
Asha Worsteling 23:19
Yeah, my experience is just, there isn’t enough information about how you actually do go about getting mental health support. Because I’m a psychology student, people kind of come up to me sometimes just asking about how they might actually go about finding someone like, you know, people don’t necessarily know that you can go to a GP, and get a mental health care plan. Or, you know, how you actually find a psychologist, or a lot of people don’t even know about services like Headspace. And I think, you know, it’s just adding that extra barrier to get help when you need it is yeah, it’s just hard to then reach out and find help if you don’t really know where to look.
Andrea Wildin 24:10
Right. Yeah. And so, at the end of the day, Asha, what do you think of three ideas that you might have to help young people sort of….[inaudible]..to help us as we move through the other side of COVID? What do you think would be three things that would really help young people at this point?
Asha Worsteling 24:32
Yeah, I think definitely bringing a better mental health service into Medicare is very, very important for young people to move forward with a positive state of mind.
Asha Worsteling 25:17
Yeah, I think, you know, free university, and free TAFE so that people do feel more encouraged to go and get education and be able to explore those opportunities more is… without then coming out with it with a massive debt.
Andrea Wildin 25:35
I think that’s a good one because… to start off and have that massive HECS debt or whatever they’re calling it now- You know, as well as not being able to afford housing not being able to afford rent with the, you know, the low wages that they’re getting, and the cost of living. I mean, it’s just putting young people way behind. Don’t you agree, Tim?
Tim Hill 26:01
I love that one too. And, and the fact that we, as a country used to have that, you know, if we go back far enough, we used to have [free uni and TAFE] the fact that it’s just been corporatized, and run for profit, and just all the support system have been like slowly kind of peeled away, is really, really sad for the country, because that this is, if you even remove kind of the ethical and moral side of this, there’s also a big financial imperative to ensure that people have access to education. So it’s, yeah, we need we need to fight for this. I think this is so important. That point.
Andrea Wildin 26:36
Yeah. And Rosie, anything to add for any other ideas for young people?
Rosie Codega 26:43
Um, well, I pretty much agree with all those three points as well. But yeah, like with the universities, and TAFE and stuff, there’s removing that cost also would remove a lot oflabels and like, people still view universities like UQ, as a lot better than, you know, other smaller universities.
Rosie Codega 27:15
So I feel like, you know, the competition. Yeah, of being the best of where you studied. If it’s good enough, or if it’s not good enough, based on just how much you’re paying and how much you’re in debt by pretty much. It’s like, it’s pretty sad. It should just be education for everyone. Yeah, with no. Yeah, I guess, sense of competition attached to it.
Andrea Wildin 27:43
Yeah. There was another one that I just learnt the other day was, that young males are paying more for their insurance, when they get their car insured, which I thought was really interesting. You know, that you can’t actually say that you’re non binary, or you’ll pay more for your insurance. I thought that was really interesting. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was very, yeah, that you’re better off saying that you’re a young female driver, and you’ll get cheaper insurance.
Andrea Wildin 28:18
So this is something that we all have to kind of take a look at and think, you know, have a look at our policies all over and think, Okay, how can we make life just that little bit easier for our young people to kind of help their mental health and help them through, you know, now that we’re coming through COVID?
Andrea Wildin 28:41
Yeah, you’ve been listening… Oh, you’re very welcome. You’ve been listening to Beyond the Rona. Captioned audio is available on our YouTube channel. You can also follow beyondtherona.com to view previous episodes or to keep in touch. Catch you later.